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 Triban

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Auetos
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7 participants
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Femme-Druide
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Nombre de messages : 4
Localisation : Carnutes
Date d'inscription : 15/01/2006

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MessageSujet: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 20 Fév 2008 - 10:03

Bonjour,

Sa signification semble varier, quel est son origine exacte ?

Merci
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Nombre de messages : 188
Localisation : Bretagne
Date d'inscription : 23/01/2006

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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 20 Fév 2008 - 11:24

A l'heure actuelle, la seule réponse valable est dans le barddas :

THE ORIGIN AND PROGRESS OF LETTERS.--THE NAME OF GOD.--THE BARDIC SECRET.
Pray, my skilful and discreet teacher, if it be fair to ask, how was the knowledge of letters first obtained?
I will exhibit the information of men of wisdom and pro-found knowledge, thus;--When God pronounced His name, with the word sprang the light and the life; for previously there was no life except God Himself. And the mode in which it was spoken was of God's direction. His name was pronounced, and with the utterance was the springing of light and vitality, and man, and every other living thing; that is to say, each and all sprang together. And Menw 1 the Aged, son of Menwyd, 1 beheld the springing of the light, and its form and appearance, not otherwise than thus, /I\. , in three columns; and in the rays of light the vocalization--for one were the hearing and seeing, one unitedly the form and sound; and one unitedly with the form and sound was life, and one unitedly with these three was power, which power was God the Father. And since each of these was one unitedly, he understood that every voice, and hearing, and living, and being, and sight, and seeing, were one unitedly with God; nor is the least thing other than God. And by seeing the form, and in it hearing the voice--not otherwise--he knew what form and appearance voice should have. And having obtained earth under him coinstantaneously with the light, he drew the form of the voice and light
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on the earth. And it was on hearing the sound of the voice, which had in it the kind and utterance of three notes, that he obtained the three letters, and knew the sign that was suitable to one and other of them. Thus he made in form and sign the Name of God, after the semblance of rays of light, and perceived that they were the figure and form and sign of life; one also with them was life, and in life was God, that is to say, God is one with life, and there is no life but God, and there is no God but life.
It was from the understanding thus obtained in respect of this voice, that he was able to assimilate mutually every other voice as to kind, quality, and reason, and could make a letter suitable to the utterance of every sound and voice. Thus were obtained the Cymraeg, and every other language. And it was from the three primary letters that were constructed every other letter,--which is the principal secret of the Bards of the Isle of Britain; and from this secret comes every knowledge of letters that is possible.
Thus was the voice, that was heard, placed on record in the symbol, and meaning attached to each of the three notes:--the sense of O was given to the first column, the sense of I to the second or middle column, and the sense of V to the third; whence the word OIV. That is to say, it was by means of this word that God declared His existence, life, knowledge, power, eternity, and universality. And in the declaration was His love, that is, coinstantaneously with it sprang like lightening all the universe into life and existence, co-vocally and co jubilantly with the uttered Name of God, in one united song of exultation and joy--then all the worlds to the extremities of Annwn. It was thus, then, that God made the worlds, namely, He declared His Name and existence . /I\.
Why is it not right that a man should commit the Name of God to vocalization, and the sound of language and tongue
Because it cannot be done without misnaming God, for
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no man ever heard the vocalization of His Name, and no one knows how to pronounce it; but it is represented by letters, that it may be known what is meant, and for Whom it stands. Formerly signs were employed, namely, the three elements of vocal letters. However, to prevent disrespect and dishonour to God, a Bard is forbidden to name Him, except inwardly and in thought.
Pray, my beloved and discreet teacher, show me the signs that stand for the Name of God, and the manner in which they are made.
Thus are they made;--the first of the signs is a small cutting or line inclining with the sun at eventide, thus, / ; the second is another cutting, in the form of a perpendicular, upright post, thus, I ; and the third is a cutting of the same amount of inclination as the first, but in an opposite direction, that is, against the sun, thus ; and the three placed together, thus, \ . But instead of, and as substitutes for these, are placed the three letters O I W. And it was in this manner that the Bard inserted this name in his stanza, thus, /I\.
The Eternal, Origin, Self-existent, Distributor,--holy be the lips
That canonically pronounce them;
Another name, in full word,
Is O. I. and W--OIW 1 the word.--Ieuan Rudd sang it. 2
This name God gave to Himself, to show that He is in existence, and that there is no one but Himself, except by gift and permission; for truly all of us men, and other living beings, are and exist only by the gift and permission
p. 22 p. 23
of God. It is considered presumptuous to utter this name in the hearing of any man in the world. Nevertheless, every thing calls Him inwardly by this name--the sea and land, earth and air, and all the visibles and invisibles of the world, whether on the earth or in the sky--all the worlds of all the celestials and terrestrials--every intellectual being and existence--every thing animate and inanimate; wherefore none that honours God, will call Him by this name, except inwardly.
The three mystic letters signify the three attributes of God, namely, love, knowledge, and truth; and it is out of these three that justice springs, and without one of the three there can be no justice. Which one so ever of the three stands up, the other two will incline towards it; and every two of them whatsoever will yield precedency and pre-eminence to the third, whichever of the three it may be. It was according to this order and principle that three degrees were conferred upon the Bards of the Isle of Britain, and each of the three was invested with privilege, precedency, and pre-eminence, in respect of the particularity of necessity, over the other two, whichsoever they might be. Out of the three attributes of God spring every power and will and law.
It was out of the knowledge and understanding of the vocalization of language and speech, by reason of the three principal letters, that sixteen letters were formed, constructed from the primary columns, namely, the three principal letters in the form of rays of light. And it was thus that form and appearance could be imparted to every vocalization of language and speech, and to every primary sound, and symbolic forms of memory be made visible on wood and stone. Accordingly the memory of seeing could thus take place simultaneously with the memory of hearing; and, by means of signs, every sound of voice could be rendered visible to the eye, as far as the ear could hear what the tongue spoke, and what awen from God was capable of. Then when sixteen letters were constructed out of the principal
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columns, namely these /I\.--since no letter can be found on the Coelbren, or in the Secret of the Bards of the Isle of Britain, that has not its elements and modifications derived from one or other of the three principal columns--and because these signs were cut on wood, they were called llythyrau. 1 And when every one of the letters was cut on wood, each of them received a name and meaning in respect of sound and voice, warranted and systematized; that is to say, each had its own peculiar vocalization, confirmed by art. Thus were obtained the signs and rudiments of war-ranted speech, which is called Abic, 2 but others call it Abcedilros. 3 Thus was ocular and manual art applied to speech and thought, whence arose ocular memorials and the materials of knowledge. Then wise men and aspirants engaged themselves in improving sciences and language and speech, and in discriminating vocalization and the variety of sound with greater skill and minuteness; and they elaborated them, until they were able to make two more letters, so that the Alphabet consisted of eighteen letters. After that the need of two more was observed, until they became twenty; 4 then twenty-two; and to complete the work, twenty-four principal letters; nor are there more in the Alphabet of the Coelbren that are simple, that is to say, of primary sound. Nevertheless, there are others that are compound letters, significative of the mutation of voice, and of the accentuation of letters, of which, according to highly skilful teachers, there are sixteen in number, whilst others will have them to be eighteen. Some of them cannot have authority or warrant, at least they cannot have necessity, in virtue of indispensable reason; nevertheless it is not allowable to forbid the improvement of sciences, whilst every awen and art are free, provided they do not injure, obscure, or confound laudable sciences.
p. 26 p. 27
It is by means of letters that sciences and history are committed to rational memory. The three foundations of sciences are memory, understanding, and reason, and without the memory little is the utility of memory, understanding, and reason. After the discovery of the knowledge of letters it was that every understanding, and consideration, and every meditation of awen were committed to the memorial of letters; and from long acquaintance therewith room was seen for improving, amplifying, and varying the order and system of language and speech, and the art of letters, that letters might be warranted, which should be suitable to every circumstance of language and speech, and for the purpose of showing visibly every sound and utterance of word, voice, and speech, that they might harmonize with the ratiocination of the art of language and letters, and that speech might agree with speech between man and man, in respect of the sound and meaning of a sentence, the effort of language, and the encounter of the art and sciences of language and letters. Hence easy and warranted became the understanding, and understanding arose from understanding, and all men became of one judgment in respect of the meaning of word and sentence, and in respect of the sense, accent, and signification of letters. And hence fixed confirmation was bestowed upon the sciences of letters, and upon all sciences that were committed to the memory and under the auspices of letters; and it became easy, also, to learn and understand what was thus arranged systematically and with a fixed meaning; and it was easy for all men to be of one judgment, and of one sense in respect of such. That is to say, from the long co-reasoning of wise men and aspirants, 1 and men of art, improvement and fixedness of meaning and system, are obtained, in respect of all sciences, and in respect of every one of them. After letters had been improved and amplified, as occasion required, in respect of meaning and number, there were exhibited twenty-four primaries--in the opinion of others, the three nines, that is to say, twenty-seven; nor is there any need or occasion
p. 28 p. 29
for more primaries, for, say they, there cannot be symbols of every sound of word and speech in the Cymraeg under twenty-seven letters--but they formed secondaries and two primary letters.
Pray, my far knowing teacher, why is it said that only a Bard of thorough secrecy knows how the Name of God is to be spoken audibly, that is to say, by means of the three principal columns of letters?
Because only a Bard of secrecy knows properly the old system of letters, and their meaning, accent, and powers, in respect of their stability in the system of the eighteen letters; for when the system of the eighteen was established, new letters were employed for the Name of God, namely O I U, but previously, during the era of the sixteen, no letters stood for the Name of God, other than the three columns of primary letters, that is , /I\.which was called the system of God and light, and only a Bard of thorough secrecy now knows properly either the one or the other of the two old systems, which I have mentioned.
Why is not that secret 1 committed to letter and audible speech, that it may be known of all?
Because it is misjudged by him who would have credence from another for more than he knows, and it is the wicked man, with the view of pillaging belief from the ignorant, that does so, and that bestows unjust imaginations upon a letter, and its meaning, accent, pronunciation, and sound, rather than the true and just. It is by such men that divine sciences are and have been corrupted, therefore the secret ought not to be divulged to other than to him who, in the judgment and sight of man, is warranted as having awen from God. Nor is there any other who knows the vocalization of the Name of God, without telling a falsehood, and the greatest falsehood is to falsify God and His Name.
Why is it not free from falsehood to commit the Name of God to speech and the hearing of the ear?
p. 30 p. 31
Because that cannot be done without its being falsely spoken, by any man or living being and existence possessed of soul and intellect, but by God Himself;--to exhibit and pronounce it in speech otherwise is falsehood, and the devastation and spoliation of God, for there is no being but God and in God, and whoso says otherwise speaks falsehood, which is falsehood against God, and depredatory usurpation over Him. But he who possesses awen from God will perceive the secret, and will know it, and wherever a man may have awen from God, warranted in respect of reason and conduct, it is not unjust to divulge to him the secret, but it is not just to do so to any other, lest the Name of God be spoken erroneously, falsely, and through unjust and vain imagination, and thereby be mocked, disparaged, and dishonoured. There is also another cause, namely, to induce a man to excercise his understanding and reason upon just and firm meditation; for he who does so, will understand the character and meaning of the primitive system of sixteen letters, and the subsequent system of eighteen, and hence will perceive and understand the Name of God, and the just reverence due to Him; for he who does truth will do justice.


p. 32 p. 33
The three principal signs of sciences, namely,/I\the three rays of light, for from them were obtained appearance and colour and form--the three voices of light, and from them were obtained hearing and speech and vocal song--and the three symbolic letters, and from them were obtained the memory of sight, and the form of voice, visibly, and.. mental understanding in regard to what can have no colour, or form, or voice. And it was from these three that fixedness and authority were obtained for sciences and art.
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Nombre de messages : 188
Localisation : Bretagne
Date d'inscription : 23/01/2006

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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 20 Fév 2008 - 11:24

barddas (suite)

ORIGIN OF LETTERS.
Einigain, Einigair, or Einiger, the Giant, was the first that made a letter to be a sign of the first vocalization that was ever heard, namely, the Name of God. That is to say, God pronounced His Name, and with the word all the world and its appurtenances, and all the universe leaped together into existence and life, with the triumph of a song of joy. 2 The same song was the first poem 3 that was ever heard, and the sound of the song travelled as far as God and His existence are, and the way in which every other existence, springing in unity with Him, has travelled for ever and ever. And it sprang from inopportune nothing; that is to say, so sweetly and melodiously did God declare His Name, that life vibrated through all existence, and through every existing materiality. And the blessed in heaven shall hear it for ever and ever, and where it is heard, there cannot be other than the might of being and life for ever and ever. It was from the hearing, and from him who heard it, that sciences and knowledge and under-
p. 40 p. 41
standing and awen from God, were obtained. The symbol of God's Name from the beginning was /I\., afterwards "oiu", and now OIW; and from the quality of this symbol proceed every form and sign of voice, and sound, and name, and condition.
CUTTINGS.--FOUNDATIONS OF AWEN.
/I\.. It was from the three signs that Einigan the Giant obtained so good an understanding of letters, which he cut on staves. He devised the mode, and made twelve 2 principal letters, if the books of the wise are true, which are called the ten radicals. As to what they are, and what their forms, it is a secret in the mystery of the Bards of the nation of the Cymry, namely, the Gwyddoniaid, who are called the primary Bards. They are three of the primary radicals, that is, the three cuttings; and they are called cuttings, because they are cut out of the dark into three rays; and for the same reason we say, the break of dawn, 3 to cut a field, to cut or break out. The third break out was the voice of a song of triumph, that is, the first voice was a voice of triumph.
The three foundations of Awen from God: to understand the truth; to love the truth; and to [maintain] the truth, so that nothing may prevail against it. From these three things may the question be correctly answered--Why wouldest thou be a Bard? And from correctly answering
p. 52 p. 53
the question is the degree of Chair obtained or refused. The answer is between the aspirant and his conscience, and between his conscience and God, not between him and his teacher.
/I\.That is to say, they are called the three columns, and the three columns of truth, because there can be no knowledge of the truth, but from the light thrown upon it; and the three columns of sciences, because there can be no sciences, but from the light and truth.
GOGYRVENS.--WRITING WITH INK.
Before the time of Belief and Baptism a letter was called gogyrven (from corf 2); and its right name is still gogyrven on the Coelbren--others call it cyrven. The old men--the primitive teachers--inserted in vocal song the number of the rays of every cyrven, and thus kept the memory and knowledge of them.
After plagawd had been obtained, that is, the dressed skins of animals, writing with black, or ink, came into use; and thence was introduced the practice of writing with ink on the Coelbren and its staves, instead of cutting cyrvens, which is still seen in places that are not visited, and are not much known. And thus were memorials and computation kept on wood and boards, and on stones, where it was possible to get them.
GOGYRVENS.
The three primary gogyrvens are /I\.
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 20 Fév 2008 - 14:21

Je ne suis pas réellement versé dans la langue de Shakespeare, donc si vous pouviez traduire votre texte en Français je vous en serais dès plus reconnaissant.

Merci.

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Nombre de messages : 188
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Date d'inscription : 23/01/2006

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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 20 Fév 2008 - 16:30

OK, mais pas le temps pour l'instant. Une traduction abrégée de Paul Ladmirault existe dans le commerce
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyVen 17 Oct 2008 - 19:32

Origine du bardisme ( abrégé du bardas) chez l'Arbre d'or en PDF

J'ai un faible pour Einigan le "premier né"


Devrait on dire la Bible du Bardisme ?
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http://www.druides.fr/
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 29 Juil 2009 - 8:31

J'ai vu que certains druides (pas tous) utilisaient le TRIBAN pour bénir l'assemblée "au nom de Lug, de Teutatés, etc etc"

Hors il semblerait que la gestuelle change ? Certains faisant une barre avec le doigt pour la Déité qu'il dit pour finir par un Triban à 3 doigts et d'autres faisant le Triban des 3 doigts à chaque fois qu'il nomme la Déité.

D'où provient cette gestuelle ? Est ce de Ioland ou des druides qui aiment mettre un peu de "théâtre" dans leur rituel ?
Quelqu'un peut m'aider ?
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 29 Juil 2009 - 10:02

Auetos a écrit:
Je ne suis pas réellement versé dans la langue de Shakespeare, donc si vous pouviez traduire votre texte en Français je vous en serais dès plus reconnaissant.

Merci.
Moi aussi ! Very Happy
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyJeu 30 Juil 2009 - 6:27

Fedelma a écrit:
D'où provient cette gestuelle ? Est ce de Toland ou des druides qui aiment mettre un peu de "théâtre" dans leur rituel ?
Quelqu'un peut m'aider ?

Cette gestuelle, adoptée par la quasi majorité des druides contemporains, est un pendant du signe de croix des chrétien. Je ne sais pas qui l’a mis en place pour la première fois, mais depuis c’est devenu un signe « officiel » du (néo)druidisme. On le trouve partout. Sur les tenues, les bandeaux, en pendentif et… en gestuelle.

D’aucuns affirment même, en montrant le collier du prince de Glauberg, que ce signe est de la plus haute antiquité. Bien que cette hypothèse soit alléchant, je ne le pense pas, mais l’utilise tout de même, car j’y vois la représentation de la Trinertii, du triskel, etc.

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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyLun 4 Fév 2013 - 12:03

J'aimerais en savoir plus sur ce symbole, surtout lorsqu'il apparaît sur le corps pendant plusieurs jours (le front exactement).
Quelqu'un peut-il m'éclairer ?
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyLun 4 Fév 2013 - 20:02

Nemesha, la première idée qui me vient à l'esprit en lisant ton post, c'est que tu es bénie des dieux !
Au regard de ton jeune âge, c'est une grande faveur qu'ils te font. A mon humble avis, d'autres "choses" suivront... Le seul conseil que je peux te prodiguer, c'est de ne pas paniquer lorsqu'"elles" se manifesteront.

A OU m, Nemi Sucari "A OU m, je reconnais la divinité qui est en toi"

Bien à toi,
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMar 5 Fév 2013 - 10:40

Merci Matolitus pour ton message qui m'étonne sans m'étonner. C'est parfois difficile d'accepter cela... Je sais pas bien ce que je dois faire... Pour le tribann, c'était une expérience avec un lieu dans ma belle Touraine où j'ai découvert un joli temple végétal, une magnifique clairière de coudriers bien protégé par les esprits et les éléments (un ruisseau fait barrage, enfin je l'ai traversé quand même !). Il y avait là, juste avant le franchissement du ruisseau, un beau tas d'argile dont je n'ai pas résisté à mettre les pieds de dedans et à m'en tartiner la gargoulette ! Lorsque que je me suis débarbouillée avec l'eau de la rosée qui perlait sur les brins d'herbe au moment de partir, le triban était là, sur mon front.
Ensuite, il s'est éclipsé au bout d'une semaine.

Je n'aime pas parler de ce qui m'arrive, des expériences que je vis. Car je le vis comme l'enfant que j'étais (que je suis toujours !), sans essayer d'analyser, de nommer, vivre les choses telles qu'elles sont. Mais là, je suis assez troublée. C'est arrivé il y a de cela, plusieurs mois. Mais, bien qu'il ait disparu, je le ressens constamment.

Si je fais pars de cela, c'est que je me sens un peu décontenancée. J'aimerais tellement rencontrer une personne ayant cheminer, un(e) vrai(e) sage. Et pourtant, les seuls qui sachent me guider ne sont pas de ce monde matériel, car ceux que je rencontre ici, je ne les sens pas. Il y a toujours un truc qui me chiffonne, même si la personne en question est très gentille.

Je suis si petite, j'aimerais rencontrer cette personne de chair, d'os et de sang qui aurait cette maîtrise et cette majesté naturelle.
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMar 5 Fév 2013 - 11:38

Chère Nesmeha,

dans ce cas, j'aurais tendance à demander à mon Gardien (d'aucuns disent "Ange-Gardien", d'autres "Esprit") de me guider et de me faire rencontrer cette personne, ce sage. L'Inde est à mon avis le pays le plus propice pour cela, même s'il se trouve de nombreux imposteurs. Mais cela peut être aussi ici en Europe, tout près de chez toi, va savoir...
Le mien avec qui j'entretiens de nombreux dialogues quotidiens et dont j'ai trouvé le nom récemment, me déroule en ce moment un véritable "tapis rouge" afin que j'accomplisse honnètement et dignement mon destin et termine ma vie sur terre avec sérénité. Je lui en suis très reconnaissant pour cela. Mes jours et mes nuits sont de ce fait très riches.

Bien à toi,
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyMer 6 Fév 2013 - 11:12

Chère Nesmeha,

pour prolonger mon précédent post, voici 2 références de livres qui peuvent t'aider à communiquer avec nos divinités et notre Gardien (d'autres encore auraient dit "Deuos") :

http://www.souffledor.fr/boutique/produits_comme-un-chuchotement__3465.html

http://www.souffledor.fr/boutique/produits_la-petite-voix__2118.html

Que les dieux te fassent voir la Lumière !
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyJeu 7 Fév 2013 - 11:31

Merci Matolitus pour ce partage de lecture Wink
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyVen 8 Fév 2013 - 10:06

Naître, c'est recevoir une fonction,
Vivre, c'est la remplir...

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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyVen 8 Fév 2013 - 15:29

Auetos a écrit:
Naître, c'est recevoir une fonction,
Vivre, c'est la remplir...
Auetos, que veux-tu dire par là ? Est-ce en lien avec la portée symbolique du Triban (les sons primordiaux) ?
Ou est-ce par rapport à mon témoignage ?

En tout cas, j'aime bien cette idée que l'on dépose quelque chose en nous (recevoir une fonction) pour qu'elle germe et s'accroît avec force, patience et résilience avec accord avec l'Univers en soi et autour de soi (remplir le champ de la fonction).
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyVen 8 Fév 2013 - 16:02

Je veux dire par là que rien n’est du au hasard, chacun est à sa place et reçoit des messages quand il est temps, pour lui, d’en recevoir.

Alors je ne sais pas si votre marque sur votre front était du à un message du divin, a un mauvais nettoyage de votre figure ou à une réaction allergique à l’argile mais, ce que je sais c’est que dès le départ vous, nous tous, avons été « programmés » pour une certaine fonction que nous devons découvrir et remplir.

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Nombre de messages : 1052
Localisation : Brogis Parisii
Date d'inscription : 28/02/2011

Triban Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban EmptyVen 8 Fév 2013 - 20:28

Mata duidoglos,


Je trouve ça très beau...

"Naître, c'est recevoir une fonction,
Vivre, c'est la remplir..."

Merci

Dagomata nuxunna
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MessageSujet: Re: Triban   Triban Empty

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